Size may not be everything, but it matters quite a bit
by Bruce Peter on Jan 17, 2011 3:01 PM EST
in Junior Hockey
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Apologies for the week long absence here, as I try and get re-adjusted from writing about a major international tournament that kept me on my toes, to getting back in the swing of things regarding relatively minor tournaments and the not quite stretch drive of the European hockey season. I'm going to have some pieces on the various national leagues, as well as the U20 Division 3's. I'm also going to revive my First NHL Goals series, which I'll have to put into hyperdrive with upwards of one a day just to catch up by season's end.
Enough about content to come, here's an interesting comparison for you. One of the themes of the U20s this year was the size of the Canadian team, the largest ever apparently, and it got me thinking about the whole debate in hockey circles about the value of size. Looking at the rosters of some of these other national teams, it does kind of strike you the difference involved. By no means is size the most important thing, but I don't think it's an outlandish hypothesis to make that in general, the biggest and strongest in a society will be put into the country's most viable athletic pursuits. For Canada, that means hockey, and therefore it's not surprising that Canada has a bigger team than anyone else (although the USA was a very close second).
Being bigger may not directly translate to being more skilled, but there should be little doubt that the Canadians were amongst the most skilled, if not THE most skilled team this past year, so this comparison doesn't solve any of the skill vs. size debate, really. But have a look at how Canada's team compared to one of this year's Division 3 U20 level teams in size:
| Canada Player | Pos | Ht | Wt | Year | Taiwan Player | Pos | Ht | Wt | Year |
| Jared Cowen | D | 6'6" | 227 | 1991 | Yen Lin-Shen | D | 5'11" | 229 | 1991 |
| Simon Despres | D | 6'4" | 220 | 1991 | To Weng | F | 5'10" | 198 | 1991 |
| Erik Gudbranson | D | 6'4" | 209 | 1992 | Hao-Che Tseng | F | 5'10" | 172 | 1991 |
| Zack Kassian | F | 6'3" | 225 | 1991 | Yu-Tung Chao | D | 5'9" | 172 | 1994 |
| Carter Ashton | F | 6'3" | 218 | 1991 | Po-Yuan Hsiao | F | 5'9" | 165 | 1993 |
| Curtis Hamilton | F | 6'3" | 201 | 1991 | Chieh Liang | F | 5'9" | 161 | 1993 |
| Sean Couturier | F | 6'3" | 192 | 1992 | Jui-Tang Chen | F | 5'8" | 168 | 1991 |
| Dylan Olsen | D | 6'2" | 223 | 1991 | Fa-Ben Lu | D | 5'8" | 152 | 1991 |
| Marcus Foligno | F | 6'2" | 198 | 1991 | Po-Yun Hsiao | F | 5'8" | 150 | 1995 |
| Mark Visentin | G | 6'2" | 198 | 1992 | Yu-Lun Liu | F | 5'7" | 165 | 1991 |
| Ryan Johansen | F | 6'2" | 192 | 1992 | Chia-Wen Hsu | F | 5'7" | 154 | 1991 |
| Quinton Howden | F | 6'2" | 190 | 1992 | Yu-Cheng Liao | G | 5'7" | 154 | 1992 |
| Brett Connolly | F | 6'2" | 181 | 1992 | Wei-Chieh Liao | F | 5'7" | 150 | 1993 |
| Brayden Schenn | F | 6'0" | 201 | 1991 | Jia-Jyun Hong | D | 5'7" | 128 | 1993 |
| Calvin de Haan | D | 6'0" | 187 | 1991 | Kuan-Yu Shih | D | 5'7" | 123 | 1992 |
| Cody Eakin | F | 6'0" | 185 | 1991 | Chia-Pin Chang | F | 5'6" | 148 | 1991 |
| Casey Cizikas | F | 5'11" | 190 | 1991 | Kuo-Feng Juan | F | 5'5" | 143 | 1991 |
| Olivier Roy | G | 5'11" | 185 | 1991 | Yu-Han Liao | G | 5'5" | 126 | 1995 |
| Louis Leblanc | F | 5'11" | 179 | 1991 | Yang-Chung Lee | D | 5'4" | 132 | 1993 |
| Tyson Barrie | D | 5'10" | 190 | 1991 | |||||
| Ryan Ellis | D | 5'10" | 183 | 1991 | |||||
| Jaden Schwartz | F | 5'10" | 183 | 1992 |
As you can see, only three Taiwan players met the Canadian minimum height standard, with only two tipping the scales at an acceptable Canadian level. And Yen Lin-Shen's unorthodox proportions kind of make him stand out at any level, as despite being a respectable 5'11", he's actually heavier than any of the Canadian players. It's tough to imagine two fifteen year olds ever playing at the top level of the U20s as well, but for one of the lowest ranked teams, I suppose you take your best no matter how old they are.
Taiwan will be staying at the Division 3 level next year, while Canada will be looking to get back to the top of the heap on home ice. I guess this gives a whole other meaning to the idea of 'growing the game worldwide'.
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one of the things to consider about this is also training. taiwanese players are, of course, going to be generally smaller than canadian players because taiwanese people are generally smaller than canadians, but the big difference is that by the time canadian players get to the u20s, they’re already very professionalized, and in most cases (i assume) on pro-level training regimens. it taiwan, you’re choosing from a very limited pool of kids who are into hockey, and they’re all basically just ordinary kids living ordinary kid lives.
eric shen (sorry, i know him by the english name), the outlier you mentioned, is an interesting case. kid is a shot-putter, actually, apparently good enough that there is talk of him being able to qualify to represent taiwan at the olympics. he’s a heckuva player, tools-wise- muscular, fast, tough on the puck, with a wrist shot harder than most slapshots. if he’d been born in canada and gotten the kind of strategic training and practice canadian kids do from early childhood, i wouldn’t be surprised if he’d turned out good enough for major junior.
Well I think part of the argument is that you have your biggest and best represented in your country’s most popular sport. It’d be interesting to compare Canada’s U20 team to a similar sample of say, Taiwan’s junior baseball team.
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by thelastjohnny on Jan 18, 2011 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
true, although i think that’s also where another cultural difference comes into play: taiwan isn’t much of a sporting culture, so there isn’t much of a push to put kids- even big ones- into sports. it takes a unique kind of kid and a unique kind of family to be willing to put in the time required to get to the top tier of any sport, given that that is time taken away from education, and most kids here spend 12 hours a day in school. so i think in any sport in taiwan, no matter how popular, you won’t necessarily see the most physically impressive people in the country represented at the highest level. i’m betting a lot of the people in taiwan who could have been it’s best athletes ended up being neurosurgeons and electrical engineers.
i’m betting a lot of the people in taiwan who could have been it’s best athletes ended up being neurosurgeons and electrical engineers.
Pfft. What a waste! :)
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Really? This is a valid comparison of what?
I could make the same comparison of accountants in Canada vs Taiwan. Canada would be bigger. How about taxi drivers? Or just pick 200 random people….Canadians will be bigger.
A valid comparison would be more like Europe to Canada. What’s the Croatian or Dutch team like. They very well could be bigger. Doesn’t mean they are good.
It all has to do with development time. Games, practices and a culture of hockey.
so this comparison doesn’t solve any of the skill vs. size debate, really
And it always helps to be big. Not necessarily too big, but big helps.
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by red army line on Jan 19, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
It’s just to give you an idea of some of the differences in the teams from top to bottom. It’s not meant to be entirely serious.
If you want a European example, well, here’s Serbia, who range from 5’9" to 6’4", but have some really skinny players, with a low of 143 lbs., a high of 238 lbs., and only three players above 200 lbs. in total (Canada has 8).
Bulgaria barely beat Taiwan to finish 2nd last of the participating nations, and they’re noticeably smaller as a team than Serbia, who finished 2nd in the group and was promoted to Division 2.
That said, Mexico won the tournament, albeit on home ice, with a smaller team than Serbia, much like Russia beat Canada with a slightly smaller team.
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by Bruce Peter on Jan 19, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
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